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Oct 8 09 6:09 AM
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Oct 8 09 6:48 AM
Oct 8 09 7:04 AM
rommey "journeyer, there is no road, you make your road as you walk"
Oct 9 09 9:24 PM
Oct 10 09 2:37 PM
Custodian of Castle Anthrax
Oct 11 09 7:53 PM
Oct 12 09 4:14 AM
Oct 12 09 3:51 PM
... having a gun and knowing how to use it led him to a very tragic conclusion.......
Is it worth to be armed and ready when you're facing that kind of risk...?
Oct 12 09 5:03 PM
Sometimes, standing for what you believe means standing alone
Oct 12 09 6:59 PM
Oct 13 09 2:23 AM
Oct 13 09 3:42 AM
Oct 13 09 6:40 AM
Oct 13 09 7:08 AM
First, there aren't 2 million instances per year of defensive use of firearms in the US
Oct 13 09 9:37 AM
First, there aren't 2 million instances per year of defensive use of firearms in the US. If you search for the source of such affirmation it is based
on regional sampling and skewed by what regions you look at. When you try to extend it to the whole population of the entire US it becomes meaningless. The
fact is that homicides and wounding in a crime situation are way down as a percentage compared with accidental homicides and wounding of people related to
the shooter. Which goes way under reported as well.
I do agree with you that training and firearm use education is a must. But the opportunity for felons to obtain guns is as good if not better than that of
a common resident in our communities. Gun ownership statistics are also meaningless given the grouping of the types of guns. There is a big difference
between a shotgun which most likely won't give you a chance of doing more than squirrel, hens or rabbit hunting, and a handgun 32 and up, which can in
effect kill a person, or an assault rifle which can produce those multiple homicides scenarios we get to see reported too often unfortunately.
I am a retired member of the Argentine Army, and I am trained to use weapons, not only guns, plus personal combat skills, which can be as lethal as a gun.
It came with a deep study of situation assessment skills, which gives a perspective on when to resort to which degree of escalation. I suspect that at your
job you get a very similar perspective. Well, we are perhaps only 1% of all the gun owners who have such skills.
Most depend on common sense, which under stress, might wear very thin if not vanish totally.
Before I continue, let me tell you that I support private ownership of guns. But not a free for all (felons excluded hopefully but also doubtfully)
I would rather have a Swiss style of regulation, with continuous training (a week a year perhaps) in order to maintain a license to own guns, after an
initial thorough evaluation to get the permit, including in it a psychological/emotional check up. In Switzerland there is a requirement for all adults to
own a combat capable gun, with yearly training. You are exempted only when you reach certain age, or you present some kind of disability which would render
you ineligible to own a gun.
This discussion can go forever and we can find thousands of different opinions, all based on and supported by some kind of personal experience. It being a
personal experience doesn't invalidate them. But we should understand the limitation of such support. Perhaps we need to find a common ground and
recognize that without education and regulation we are left in the wilderness you and I experience today.
Oct 13 09 11:05 AM
For the sake of argument I'll concede the point, however even if we halve that number or more, that is still anywhere from 500,000 to one million times a
year that a handgun was used in a situation that protected the wielder's health, or that of someone nearby.
According to FBI sources there are between 1,700 to 2,400 instances of guns used by regular citizens (not law enforcement personnel) a year in the 50 states,
DC, Puerto Rico and the territories, in situations in which it might prevent the commission of a crime. When compared with the number of incidents in which
somebody was accidentally wounded or killed by a private owner of a firearm, it is a small fraction (below 2%). I don't know where you find support for the
half a million instances. Even with under reporting, it might up to several thousands, not hundred of thousands. That's another instance of a urban legend
inspired by spurious political aims, to make the regular citizen fearful without a real reason. By the way, have you looked the statistics of gun owners hurt
or killed in the process of being robbed of their gun? Every week there are at least over a dozen states that have at least one of such kind of incident.
Anyway, I am glad you and I seem to agree about the basic points.
Oct 13 09 11:39 AM
The Department of Justice's own National Institute of Justice study titled "Guns in America: National Survey on Private Ownership and Use of
Firearms," estimated that 1.5 million Americans use guns for defensive purposes every year. Although the government's figure estimated a million
fewer people defensively using guns, the NIJ called their figure "directly comparable" to Kleck's, noting that "it is statistically
plausible that the difference is due to sampling error."
Data from the NCVS imply that each year there are only about 68,000 defensive uses of guns in connection with assaults and robberies,  or about 80,000 to
82,000 if one adds in uses linked with household burglaries.  These figures are less than one ninth of the estimates implied by the results of at least
thirteen other surveys, summarized in Table 1, most of which have been previously reported.  The NCVS estimates imply that about 0.09 of 1% of U.S.
households experience a defensive gun use (DGU) in any one year, compared to the Mauser survey's estimate of 3.79% of households over a five year period,
or about 0.76% in any one year, assuming an even distribution over the five year period, and no repeat uses.
According to the National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS) in 2000, 533,470 victims of serious violent crimes (rape and sexual
assault, robbery, and aggravated assault) stated that they faced an offender with a firearm. The FBI's Crime in the
United States estimated that 66% of the 15,517 murders in 2000 were committed with firearms.
Oct 14 09 4:50 AM
@Rommey, In the US you need to carry a gun. That's just the way it is.
Oct 14 09 5:29 AM
Oct 14 09 5:38 AM
Firey, interesting sources you frequent, three samples of NRA sponsored research sites, and I would guess paid for, with little credibility to any serious
social scholar... There is a way of playing statistics which aren't for real statistics, but guesstimates, and I am sure they will find the way to use
them... For those who enjoy being frightened they might be great. Better than Halloween. What a blast!
Oct 14 09 5:51 AM
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