I don't know. I'm still plugging it in.
As I was typing this, the last of the delivery has been showing up. The modem just arrived.
I'll fire it up, see what's up ...
(If you see smoke on the horizon, that's not a good sign)
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sear |
The Apple Mac mini: what's it like? What's it got? What'll it do? |
Lead | |
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The Apple Mac mini: what's it like? What's it got? What'll it do?
I don't know. I'm still plugging it in. As I was typing this, the last of the delivery has been showing up. The modem just arrived. I'll fire it up, see what's up ... (If you see smoke on the horizon, that's not a good sign) |
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Macaroo |
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Calm down, sear. There'll be a learning curve, but you're a smart guy and you have the Apple 90 day techie-talk available. I think you'll like the
OS once you get used to it, and as minimalist as my requirements are, I'll be glad to help if I can. There are also free Macintosh user help sites online.
Feel free to take advantage of all of them.
Just remember that Apple charges a premium rate for software and peripherals, so forget them unless you can't get what you need elsewhere at a waaaay better price. In many cases you can, so don't let them scare you. Mac
"Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize
them, you are a mile away from them and you have their shoes." Jack Handey
Freethinkers Pub Boomer Bay (For those born 1946-1964) |
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sear |
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"Calm down, sear." Mac You read me like a dime novel Mac. My neophyte nerves have gone from 11:AM anticipation to 9:30PM/ET horror. Mac, please don't take this personally, but, Apple slipped it to me! This contraption is dreadful!! If it was a charming, inspiring story I could drag it out. It's not. So I'll cut to the chase. I bought the Mac mini with the tiniest internal hard drive (HDD) they offer, 120 gigs. I did this because I have a 2 TB external LaCie HDD connected via Firewire 800. With 2TB of storage for HDTV, I don't need much of an internal HDD. But: a) the DVR software that comes with this system (Elgato EyeTV) doesn't offer an option to record to an external drive. This means I can only record about 1 or 2 days of HDTV, and then must erase it to make room for more. That's pointless. It's little better than watching TV off the air. b) I called for tech. help about it. Apple says that though they sold me the two Elgato units, they don't support them. They did not tell me they wouldn't support the product they were selling me. c) I had a hard time figuring out the Mac system. Eventually I found out that though I'd reconfigured the screen matrix ratio, Apple doesn't offer a 1440 X 900 option. And none of the options they offer allow me to see the full screen. The Apple tech. tells me there should be a "mini-bar" of options with drop-down menus across the top of my screen. I've tried every setting, and none of them makes it show up. The tech. said there are lots of complaints about this. His solution? I should go out and buy a $30.oo adapter, and stop using the mini-DVI to DVI adapter, and instead use a "mini-display port to DVI" adapter. After I do that, it's alleged that I'll then be offered a 1440 X 900 resolution option. d) All the Windows based DVRs I've had (I've had a Sony, a Gateway, and an HP) had unlimited recording programming. As long as there wasn't a time conflict (can't record 2 shows at once w/ only one tuner card), you can pre-set as many recordings as you like. Just specify: channel / start time / end time. Apple / Elgato doesn't do that. They have a scheme where the programs are selected from a menu that comes from TV Guide via the Internet. And though they offer the first year free, after that it has to be paid for. So unless I pay, I can't program the recordings. e) This Elgato DVR deal is even less ergonomic than MS Vista. I don't want a separate remote controller. I issue my commands from mouse and keyboard. There's an on-screen controller. But unlike on Windows (their controller disappears after a few seconds), this one just stays there, even when it's in full screen playback mode. It can be slid nearly off the screen. But a portion of it remains visible on the screen, and it must be dragged back into view to be operated. This is utterly amateurish. If a junior high school student produced software like this, she'd be lucky to get a B. It does not deserve to be regarded as commercial quality product. f) This is just a monster rip-off. The Windows machine is $hundreds of $dollars cheaper, more powerful (in quantifiable terms of Gigs. of RAM, etc.), and it'll record to an external hard drive no problem. This Apple is useless to me. It won't do what they lead me to believe it would do. They don't support it. I'm done with it for today, and perhaps for longer than that. Next question: what am I going to do for a computer / DVR. At this point, it seems buying a Windows Vista disk may be the low cost solution. But as Vista is on its way out, I may just wait for Windows 7 Media Edition (or whatever they'll call it) to become available. Ugh! Anybody want a great deal on a $1,300.oo Apple Mac mini? |
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Macaroo |
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Mac, please don't take this personally, but, Apple slipped it to me!Couldn't possibly take it personally, sear. I don't use any of the stuff you're talking about, but here's a link you may find instructive. http://www.elgato.com/elg...mainmenu/support.en.html As for the deceptive sales pitch, you should complain loud and long; at least about that particular outlet and salesperson. Contact information is here. http://www.computerhope.com/comp/apple.htm If they brush you off, then you should talk to the Better Business Bureau. I'm so sorry you feel you've been had. Aside from the overpriced peripherals and the usual prods toward software I don't need, I've never had any real complaint about Apple service. But then, I've always done business with them in person and can employ the oh-so-useful phrase, "Show me," so that may be a factor. Poor sear. You've had a bad day, huh? ::: pat, pat, pat ::: Mac
"Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize
them, you are a mile away from them and you have their shoes." Jack Handey
Freethinkers Pub Boomer Bay (For those born 1946-1964) |
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tracyanneb |
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This means I can only record about 1 or 2 days of HDTV, and then must erase it to make room for more. sear, don't erase it! The mac is UNIX, you can easily create a bash script and run it as a cron job, say every day or two, instead of deleting the files simply move them to the
external drive with something like
Linux and Open Source Software.
In a world without Walls and Fences, there's no need for Windows and Gates. Linux..... The Future..... It's here now. |
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tracyanneb |
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And because it's a UNIX (Free BSD) based system you have the power of Symbolic Links at your disposal, so instead of creating a cron job to move the
recorded material to your external drive, simply map a Symbolic Link to the drive with
Linux and Open Source Software.
In a world without Walls and Fences, there's no need for Windows and Gates. Linux..... The Future..... It's here now. |
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sear |
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Thanks for the links Mac. I hope to check them both out.
Tracy, I'm glad to have that information. BUT: With time-shift TV recording, for every hour of recording there's a minimum of two hours of Hard Disk Drive (HDD) labor involved. The first hour is to record it, the second hour is to play it back. Playback pauses, stops, and rewind, etc. can extend that further. This puts a significant burden on that one drive. The approach you mention might (or might not) work (depending upon how resistant the software is to playback of recordings not on the preferred drive). BUT: To do that, it would mean for every hour of HDTV I watched, there would be a minimum of 4 hours of HDD labor. If these were just tiny text files I wouldn't give it a second thought. But on Windows machines, Windows offers four different record resolutions. I've always used the lowest resolution, as I can't tell the difference between that and highest, and imagine the lower res. files are smaller. But even though smaller, I believe they're around 12 Gigs. That's just plain huge. And even if in a 24 hour day I just recorded one hour of news, one TV drama, and a few late night shows (Conan & Ferguson), that might be only 4 hours of viewing. But it would be 16 hours worth of HDD read / write. I realize a HDD can transfer an hour of video in less than an hour. But if it's 12 Gigs of program, that's 48 gigs of record - playback. For that one light day, that's over 190 gigs. of recording or playback. Windows, for all its imperfections doesn't do that. And no $1,300.oo computer system should. Must go now. Perhaps more later. |
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tracyanneb |
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Using symbolic links the recordings would always be on the preferred HDD, as far as the software is concerned. You are thinking in terms of how Windows does things. On Linux/Unix there is no such thing as an different drive. it's merely another node in the filesystem. When I connect my terrabyte external HDD to my Linux laptop, as far as the Operating system, and threfore applications are concerned, that terrabyt HDD is just another directory in the Filesystem tree, it's called /media/disk, it could as easily be called /media/timbucktoo, and if I create a symbolic link to it, and place the symbolic link in my home directory (/home/tracy) it becomes /home/tracy/linktodisk or if I rename the symbolic link it becomes /home/tracy/thenameigavethesymboliclink, and as far as the OS and there applications are concered it's just another directory under /home/tracy along with a directory called Documents and another called Download and another called Videos etc. A smbolic link is the node linked to is the directory it appears to be, quite interchangably.This, by the way is exactly how I "fool" my Virtual machine application VirtualBox into thinking it's acessing a directory called .VirtualBox (a hidden directory in my home directory /home/tracy/.VirtualBox), when, in fact, it's accessing a directory on the external teraByte HDD, which contains the files needed to run Windows Xp or Windows 7 or Mandriva Linux 2009.1 or Red Hat Linux or SuSE Linux, when I require them. But the important thing is that in a Linux/Unix (and therefore Mac) filesystem there is no such things as an external HDD there is only a mounted filesystem, which is integrated into the root "/" filesystem, and is therefore, as far as the Operating system (and therefore applications) is concerned is just another directory in the filesystem. This is radically different from how it's done in Windows, and requires that you reorient your thinking regarding what you are dealing with, and what the limitations are. The Limitations imposed upon you by Windows don't exist, and to take advantage of what you have requires a shift in thinking. You no longer have mounted Devices (ie an external hard drive) you have mounted filesystems, which are considerably more flexible... as I explained when discussing Linux.
Linux and Open Source Software.
In a world without Walls and Fences, there's no need for Windows and Gates. Linux..... The Future..... It's here now.
Last Edited By: tracyanneb
06/23/09 5:08 AM.
Edited 2 times.
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Macaroo |
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Thanks, Tracyanne. It's nice to have an expert in the house.
Mac
"Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize
them, you are a mile away from them and you have their shoes." Jack Handey
Freethinkers Pub Boomer Bay (For those born 1946-1964) |
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tracyanneb |
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A possible solution to the filesizes, I don't know if Apple will allow this, but on Linux it's possible to mount a special compressed filesystem using FUSE, it would be possible to effectively double or even quadruple the terrabyte HDD.
Linux and Open Source Software.
In a world without Walls and Fences, there's no need for Windows and Gates. Linux..... The Future..... It's here now. |
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tracyanneb |
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Bet you didn't know your Mac was capable of all that, did you.
Linux and Open Source Software.
In a world without Walls and Fences, there's no need for Windows and Gates. Linux..... The Future..... It's here now. |
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sear |
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"Thanks, Tracyanne. It's nice to have an expert in the house. Tow Tally!! tracy, We're on very thin ice here, as I'm a dismal Linux neophyte. But this is potentially titanic breakthrough. tracy, "Caveat Emptor". I should have looked before I leapt. It was a foolish, foolish blunder to buy this dismally inadequate machine. In fact, it's so vastly inferior even to the marginally adequate Windows machines, since yesterday I've been planning my next Windows move. It's a question of whether I load Windows 7 on my current machine (probable), or buy a new one w/ Windows 7 already on it (possible). but If I can get this Mac mini to record to the ~2TB HDD, that would at least render the system useable. As it is now, I'm not so sure. Also: When I bought this 2TB LaCie external firewire drive, it was formatted for the Apple. I couldn't get the Windows system to recognize it via firewire. But it did recognize it via USB. So I reformatted it NTFS (Windows) via USB. It literally too 24 hours to format. When I followed the tech. instructions to convert it to Apple, it took about 20 seconds. AND!! The numerous files that were on it as a Windows drive are still on it. I'm not sure I want that. Isn't there a way to format to the Apple file system as thoroughly as it was formatted to the Apple standard? I'm lead to believe such longer process better helps the HDD to identify bad sectors and write them out of the disk map (we used to call it a "File Allocation Table [FAT]" back in the '80's). I would think this would make the system more robust. tracy, I'm so sorry Apple doesn't support this. Perhaps I can trick them into doing so some other way. But even if the OS can access the external HDD, it's not absolutely clear the DVR software can / will. I don't know all about it. But I've looked it over pretty well. And I haven't seen anything indicating such an option [though I sense you're suggesting it can be done independent of the software, on the OS level, via flags place in various folders (or Linux equvalent)]. I should just read and memorize Linux for Dummies. I'm obviously too impatient for that. |
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tracyanneb |
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Sear, it's quite easy to do via the command line, and in fact I did it on my iPhone so that I could load music into the ipod folders and have them made available to a different media player. I'll have to get on a Mac to walk you through the process, as for starters the bash terminal is buried several layers deep on the Mac, and i will need to refresh my memory of where it is. But the example commands I gave are pretty much all that's need plus you'll have to move the directory that the DVR software creates to the external drive, then replace it with a Symbolic link of the same name, exactly as I've done for VirtualBox on my Linux machine. back to you later
Linux and Open Source Software.
In a world without Walls and Fences, there's no need for Windows and Gates. Linux..... The Future..... It's here now. |
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sear |
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Holy Cow!!
tracy! You could turn this F- in to D+ !! There are numerous other minor drawbacks to the Apple mini / Elgato - EyeTV that disfavor it. For one thing, getting it to operate in full screen mode is difficult. I think I might have succeeded at it once. But I can't remember how I did it. Usually, the view of the video is in a window on the computer screen. And with the Apple, windows can't be resized as they can in Windows (by dragging and dropping their borders). I've already selected "Maximize" for the window size. But it still doesn't take up the whole screen. It's as distracting as having weird, tangential stuff showing up on your TV screen. It doesn't belong there. Alright. I'm on Apple overload. I should just chill. Later on? |
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Macaroo |
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And with the Apple, windows can't be resized as they can in Windows (by dragging and dropping their borders).I'm still using Tiger, sear, but you should be able to resize the windows in Leopard, too. Look at the lower right corner of the open window. There should be a triangular area on the lowest edge just under the scroll bar....like this:
Just grab it with the cursor and drag the border wherever you want it.
Mac
"Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize
them, you are a mile away from them and you have their shoes." Jack Handey
Freethinkers Pub Boomer Bay (For those born 1946-1964) |
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sear |
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"Look at the lower right corner of the open window. There should be a triangular area on the lowest edge just under the scroll bar....like this:" Mac Of the window I wish to re-size? OK I'll look for that. Perhaps it's on some (such as Apple software from Apple, like iWork), but not on others, or whatever. It seems the Elgato EyeTV software isn't Apple, and may not have that. (Or it may be, but probably isn't *this.) One thing I can do Mac is to check it on another application (do they call those Apple-lications, or Appleications?). But the more immediate problem is: We had several brief power outages here Monday. So last night (Tuesday, the second day I had the machine) I just left it on its own to see how it would perform. I thought I'd have a look this AM to check it out. And this AM, it appeared to be on. The mouse LED was glowing brightly. But I couldn't get anything to appear on the screen. I shut it down, and have turned it back on. Still total zero screen display (except for "HMDI 1 - No Signal" which the monitor displays when there's no signal. I could hear applications running on the speakers. Just no picture I've shut it down, and unplugged the power. I'll leave it that way for about half an hour. I don't know what might have happened, unless it recorded so much video that it maxed out its tiny HDD, which somehow over-wrote a video driver or something. "Woe is everything." Grace06 * sear previously posted: c) I had a hard time figuring out the Mac system. Eventually I found out that though I'd reconfigured the screen matrix ratio, Apple doesn't offer a 1440 X 900 option. And none of the options they offer allow me to see the full screen. The Apple tech. tells me there should be a "mini-bar" of options with drop-down menus across the top of my screen. I've tried every setting, and none of them makes it show up. The tech. said there are lots of complaints about this. His solution? I should go out and buy a $30.oo adapter, and stop using the mini-DVI to DVI adapter, and instead use a "mini-display port to DVI" adapter. After I do that, it's alleged that I'll then be offered a 1440 X 900 resolution option. |
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sear |
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I just tried the half-hour thing.
Nada. I get sound, but totally no picture. I've re-seated the connection of every video connection, from the Mini-DVI port through the Mini-DVI to DVI adapter, and through the DVI to HDMI connection cable to the monitor. I'm gettin' zero. I'll ring up Apple, and see what's up. dang |
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sear |
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OK
I did the 1-800-GOAPPLE tech. support route. We tried various things, including booting the Mac mini from the DVD drive. Even then, no video. So the national guys gave me a contact for not an Apple store, but an Apple authorized service center. It's the nearest one, about 40 miles from here. My appointment is for Friday. btw The more local guy said: - good thing it's under warranty. If it is what I think it is, the repair will cost several hundred, and on many machines might not be worth it (I'm not sure he knew I'd only had this 3 days). I'm not too jazzed up about it however. I've got the MS Vista PC, and the more experience I get with the Apple, the more I like the Vista machine. OH!! One other for now. I told the local guy that I feared I'd over-written a video driver on the internal HDD. He said that shouldn't be possible. Perhaps w/ two TV capture devices going at once, it bypasses a system safety or something. Anyway, I told him about the 2TB external HDD, and he seemed to think there was an easy way to make all the captured video go into it. I'm bringing that along, perhaps he'll be able to set it up. tracy, I'll print out your instructions. If he can't execute them, perhaps he can at least show me how to get to a command line, so I can try it. |
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sear |
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Mac,
Thanks for the elgato links. I just registered there. The Admin. has to activate my account. I'll check my e-mail later to see if I can get in and learn something in their forum. Thanks Mac. "And because it's a UNIX (Free BSD) based system you have the power of Symbolic Links at your disposal, so instead of creating a cron job to move the recorded material to your external drive, simply map a Symbolic Link to the drive with I like this solution weigh better than the cron approach. This one cuts HDD drive use by 50%!! That's monumental, with 17 gig HDTV files! I'll print this out, and see what the maint. techs. can make of it. If they can't / won't, perhaps they can at least show me where / how the command line is, so I can try. |
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tracyanneb |
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I have to borrow a Mac, so it will be a day or so before I can give you the drum on what to do, if the Mac techies are worth their money they will
understand, or may even have a GUI way to do it. One would have thought with all it's user frriendliness that the Mac would have a simple drag and drop
solution to creating Symlinks, like Ubuntu (and most desktop Linuxes) has.
You are discovering the one reason I personally dislike Macs (and that includes their iPhone).... It is that Macs are more proprietary than Windows, as both the software and the hardware are controlled by Apple. Not that Microsoft doesn't exert an inordinate amount of control of the hardware, at least from the aspect of controlling what goes onto said hsrdware by default, namely the Windows OS... all of the big name OEMs have agreements with Microsoft, and special deals that lock them down to providing and advertising only Windows, not even Dell, it seems can escape that... you have to know where to find the Dell Linux deals, and the last time I looked even those pages has "Dell recommends Windows Vista ....." as if they are ashamed of having spent all the money and taken the time and trouble of building their Linux offerings, and would rather you went to a different page and ordered something else. On the other hand, the hardware doesn't belong to Microsoft, so replacing windows with Linux doesn't void the warranty, as it does replacing OSX with Linux on Apples hardware.
Linux and Open Source Software.
In a world without Walls and Fences, there's no need for Windows and Gates. Linux..... The Future..... It's here now. |
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Macaroo |
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Sear, I'm not sure this is what you want, but in your Applications folder there's another folder entitled "Utilities". In there is Terminal,
which apparently is the command line interface.
Mac
"Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize
them, you are a mile away from them and you have their shoes." Jack Handey
Freethinkers Pub Boomer Bay (For those born 1946-1964) |
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