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Posts: 450
Dec 4 03 9:36 AM
Quote:Actually, he was pretty clear on what he meant. I don't know if you read the pre-edited version of the post or not, but "studies have shown A" does in no way mean "if you should choose to study tribes, I believe you will find A".
Quote:Being the accuser, I guess I'll take credit for this one. But you too, Steve, seem to have missed what I thought was a pretty straight-forward point of mine: Do not present what you know not to be true, as truth.
Quote:I don't mind it when people make mistakes. If Druid had stopped to say "Oh, I could have sworn I had seen such a study, but I can't find it now" then that would have been basically okay (presuming it's true, but that's for his conscience, not mine). As it stands, he knew at the time of posting that he had never seen any study showing this at all. He made something up to prove his point. That's what's not okay. That's what makes it hard to argue with people - because those of us who take debating somewhat seriously try to actually counter these arguments, and it's damned near impossible if your source is your own imagination.
Quote:We've been around this block a few times now in this thread, and I really thought my point was easy enough to understand the first time. Druid didn't get it. It seems that you, Steve, don't get it either.
Posts: 19092
Dec 4 03 9:56 AM
Proprietor
Quote:Mac.... Are you calling me a liar? I admitted I made a mistake...A mistake is not the same thing, as a lie. Is it?
Posts: 421
Dec 4 03 10:47 AM
Quote:There are many things presented on this board, that are less than an actual "truism." The opinion that Druid expressed was an honest one, even if you don't agree. However, because you don't agree and suggest he is misleading the board, then you owe us all, not just your friends, some solid reasoning beyond your effort to squabble semantics.
Quote:Caelia? I see your opinion. I also disagree with it for all the above reasons. Please don't flatter yourself by trying to petty me, and pretend that what you write...is somehow beyond my grasp. Perhaps, what Druid wrote was beyond your own? No?
Quote:Since when must he speak word for word the way you want him to?
Posts: 1755
Dec 4 03 11:33 AM
Quote:If you must know, I think you're (at worst) an inept, imprecise, emotion-driven debater, and (at best) someone desperately trying to clarify an apparently very individualistic mysticism in what may be an inappropriate venue.
Dec 4 03 11:35 AM
Quote:Sure is fun to see that THIS thread came alive again.
Dec 4 03 12:12 PM
Dec 4 03 1:11 PM
Quote:This puzzles me a great deal, Steve. You've consistently pointed out that you don't like either the way this board is run or the opinions of the Pubbies, and yet you keep turning up. If I felt about any board the way you seem to feel about this one, I'd be sooooo gone.
Quote:Be that as it may, let's explore a little. Suppose I posted something like, "Studies have shown that religion is a palliative for humanity's condition of uncertainty." I wonder if you wouldn't like to know what studies those might be. And since I would be unable to produce even one, what conclusion would you arrive at?
Quote:Mac :::ever curious:::
Dec 4 03 2:16 PM
Quote:Caelia It's possible that I've misunderstood you completely, Steve, and I believe you have missed my point Either way, I'm not sure there's much that can be done about it, now that the tone is already set (my fault or yours matters very little, but I'll take the blame for it if you want)
Dec 4 03 8:48 PM
Quote:Mac inappropriate venue ...?...
Quote:If I set up shop in a religion forum I am chastised just as much as a non-believer in God! If I set up shop in a atheists forum I am chastised just as much as a believer in God!
Quote:My message is plain in any forum...
Dec 4 03 9:26 PM
Quote:But Steve draws attacks from all types of nits, and he hunkers down for most while one tiny word of protest by him, and WHAM-O!!!! He gets admonished by the mods, as someone that should seek other places to visit.
Dec 5 03 5:04 AM
Quote:You said it yourself, it's all about impressions. I'll be courteous enough to put it this way, then: I'm getting the impression that you, Steve, are telling me that I shouldn't be bashing Druid over semantics because I disagree with him. If this isn't it, then I wish you would clarify further what you're saying.
Quote:Because what I did, and what I must repeat I thought I did quite explicitly, again and again, was to come down on the specific style of argumentation built around making claims that the author knows to be false, in order to enhance their own argument. I pointed out that I do in fact believe that which he stated had been shown in studies to be true.
Dec 5 03 5:23 AM
Quote:If you believe what he said is true, then in can't be false, at least in your mind. Can it?
Quote:There were some glaring *typos* in my response to you
Dec 5 03 7:34 AM
Posts: 2091
Dec 5 03 9:40 AM
Quote:We are in the midst of people, who want a forum to speak out for certain beliefs and to criticize other beliefs.
Dec 5 03 12:26 PM
Quote:Wrong. Just can't resist the snide comments, can you Steve? Just for once it would be nice if you could address a point without trying to slip a backhanded insult into everything you say, and you would get less flak too. That JW programming hard to break, huh? Grow the fuck up.
Dec 5 03 1:35 PM
Quote:If I insult someone, at least I am man enough to apologize for it
Dec 5 03 5:13 PM
Dec 5 03 5:50 PM
Dec 5 03 7:07 PM
Dec 5 03 8:53 PM
Quote:But demanding two apology's from me for something that demanded no apology in the first place -- really! Really! REALLY! stinks! MO
Quote:Just can't resist the snide comments, can you Steve?
Quote:I did note at the time, that you had very little to say then, and pretty much let Red and Mac do your posting for you. I'll tell you, that is something to be admired in a man.
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