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No need to apologize. I appreciated your post, even though I don't agree with it completely, but then, I am not sure if I always agree with myself completely...so there is something to laugh at if you'd like?

Steve, I did laugh, but only because I could've written much the same.
I believe you first mentioned the "extreme" behaviors of humans, (I could be mistaken, after the fourth or fifth of Mac's draft beer, I tend to confuse my conversations) if you like, I could simply use examples of common animal behavior that is strikingly similar to human behavior.

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You list of animal behaviors was duly noted, some I was aware of...others I am not, but still, I would like to point out that you needed to look at the extreme behaviors of several groups of animals to even get close to matching the far more common behavior of man.


NOT that all behaviors are identical, differences in species being what they are. Such as the differences in child bearing you refer to.

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Oh, there are exceptions, as your local Vet will attest to, but the truth is...a 600 pound mare can pop out a 70 lbs. foal in half the time and with much less pain..


Have you ever been witness to a foal being born?
I have, and can quite confidently state that it is neither in less time nor less pain than human birth.
The mare in question was in labor for 7 hours, and squealed mightily throughout the birthing process. Now what I witnessed may have been an exception amongst horse birth, but on that same token, I've known women who gave birth after only an hour or two of labor, and delivered relatively painlessly. BTW, and I'm just nit-picking because I'm buzzed on Mac's hidden stash, (rats, shouldn't have said that...) most mares weigh in at about 850-1000 lbs, and a foal at birth can weigh 90-120 lbs. The ratio, given a quick and dirty thinking on my part, is about 8% birth weight VS. mom's body wight.

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To me, this is biblical evidence. Conclusive? No...but still...some evidence...in an an area where it is said there is none. And...what is more...there is more, for those who wish to look.


To yourself, perhaps, such is indeed evidence of the divine at work, but your statement is correct that it is far from conclusive. To myself, it is evidence only of child birth amongst differing speices. I see no trace nor need of a deity.
I would be very interested in seeing some honest evidence of a deity if you would care to provide it.

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Comparisons. I guess they are something we must make to make critical decisions as to what we ourselves will believe and having looked beyond church issues, and at what should be instead, I am one who feels belief in God has far more to offer and stimulate my mind, than viewing myself on a unique island (planet)...lost in a sea (space) with no real purpose, other than survive. But then, that is me.


If a belief in a higher power is something you need to make sense of existence, than far be it from me to dissuade you from that belief.
I, for one, have no need of a "purpose" given to me from outside of myself. I live my life, I love my family and friends, take care not to hurt others, and generally attempt to enjoy the time I have here, nor have I a need to believe that something which I personally regard as a cosmic daddy figure to reassure me that I'm doing good.
I see no need for a deity, much less the Christian one, out of all those available to choose from, to make me feel less "lost" or alone.
A bit of looking at the bible, its origins, and the books that were left out of it, got me to thinking and considering the entire concept of a deity.
What I discovered in that book I found to be very unsatisfactory, often contradictory, and frequently erroneous in historical context.

Fiery Red.