Good morning Fiery Red; wherever you are.

Fiery Red, your reply to an earlier post:

Have you ever been witness to a foal being born?
I have, and can quite confidently state that it is neither in less time nor less pain than human birth.
The mare in question was in labor for 7 hours, and squealed mightily throughout the birthing process. Now what I witnessed may have been an exception amongst horse birth, but on that same token, I've known women who gave birth after only an hour or two of labor, and delivered relatively painlessly. BTW, and I'm just nit-picking because I'm buzzed on Mac's hidden stash, (rats, shouldn't have said that...) most mares weigh in at about 850-1000 lbs, and a foal at birth can weigh 90-120 lbs. The ratio, given a quick and dirty thinking on my part, is about 8% birth weight VS. mom's body wight.<<

El Stevereno's current response:

I used to raise horses, Arabs primarily. That came to an end...with my marriage. So yes, I have done the old "squat and jerk" numerous times. Secret: I do like to avoid it...whenever possible. <wink> I mean...being the man that I am.

The fact that I raised Arabs...may account for the size difference between your weights and mine. Let's go a different route. I'll meet you half way though...and say 900 pounds for the mare, but then too, we must increase the size of the hypothetical foal. You said 90 to 120...let's go "100 lbs."

Obviously, the mare is 9 times as large as its foal.

Now an average woman weighs what? 120 lbs.? Is that fair? and an average human baby weighs...I am not sure but most seem to weigh in at the 7 to 8 pound range, so let's say 7.5 pounds. Now when you divide 7.5 into 120 I get 16. So the woman is 16 times as large as her foal (kidding)...err...baby.

So flesh to flesh...the human should have a much easier time bring a much smaller baby into the world, yet as a whole, normally...she doesn't.

Yo mentioned body structure, well, I agree, humans are unique, but when you look at apes, who evolutionists say are our closest relatives alive...they too...pop out babies...just as eay as most other animals. This, barring complications...of course.

Ok..nuff o' dat!




Fiery you quoted me earlier:
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To me, this is biblical evidence. Conclusive? No...but still...some evidence...in an an area where it is said there is none. And...what is more...there is more, for those who wish to look.
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Your reply: To yourself, perhaps, such is indeed evidence of the divine at work, but your statement is correct that it is far from conclusive. To myself, it is evidence only of child birth amongst differing speices. I see no trace nor need of a deity.
I would be very interested in seeing some honest evidence of a deity if you would care to provide it.

My current response: Sure Fiery Red, but I ask only that you keep an open mind and not dismiss all I say...just because i am on the other side of the fence, so to speak. To be fair, you are the first one I have met here, that has written to me directly, with a kindred manner in your approach. Thank you for that. <smile>

Ok, having said that. Personally, I find the language thing as an immense stumbling block for those Atheists who feel there was an original pair, or even a sub-societal group...that branched out to different parts of our globe. You see, in my mind, if that were true, then all languages would have some striking similarities both in speech and print, and it is a given that some do, especially Latin or Germanic based languages, but this is not the case when you compare say English with Chinese, for example.

I do agree that languages change over time, but not to the degree in a course of a few thousand years, that *intellectual man*...has browsed about.

The Bible...gives an easy account for this. It basically says, that there was a man, Nimrod (who evidently was the world's
first conquerer) who had his people build a tower...that was designed to set Nimrod himself up as a god, towering into the heaven itself. Now of course, Nimrod could never have accomplished such a thing, but it was the principle...of what they were trying to do...that offended God. So, to bring their offensive work to a swift halt...God confused them by giving certain groups of them different languages.

*As a side note, I'd like to say...that it is apparent that man was created with built in language (programmed so to speak).
As he began naming animals and so on... .

This immense diversity in language, that we find throughout the earth, is to me...a little more evidence of the Bible's authenticity. And...at this point, you did ask my opinion. I thank you for that.



Comparisons. I guess they are something we must make to make critical decisions as to what we ourselves will believe and having looked beyond church issues, and at what should be instead, I am one who feels belief in God has far more to offer and stimulate my mind, than viewing myself on a unique island (planet)...lost in a sea (space) with no real purpose, other than survive. But then, that is me.
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Your reply was:

If a belief in a higher power is something you need to make sense of existence, than far be it from me to dissuade you from that belief.
I, for one, have no need of a "purpose" given to me from outside of myself. I live my life, I love my family and friends, take care not to hurt others, and generally attempt to enjoy the time I have here, nor have I a need to believe that something which I personally regard as a cosmic daddy figure to reassure me that I'm doing good.
I see no need for a deity, much less the Christian one, out of all those available to choose from, to make me feel less "lost" or alone.

My current response:

Well Fiery, this time I felt you did take a little "pot shot" at me, but that's ok, I imagine it is almost impossible to differ this much, and not step on some toes in the process.

You seem to be implying, that I feel lost without God. Perhaps that is true in a sense, though not as you are stating above. If I had a notion, I could live, eat and be merry and go about my own business no matter where this Earth is headed or what its purpose is, like most people seem to do.

My turning to God, had more to do with humanity and the extreme cruelty it delivers to many of those around them. I must admit, I have considered the fact that we are poisoning the earth, and continuing to do so at an alarming rate...even though we realize we are. What efforts are made to change things by the powers that be...are mere tokens. So yes, I searched for wisdom beyond my human understanding, feeling quite exasperated, no disgusted, at what I saw...in man.

My faith is not blind. I do not need a super-human Daddy, but the Earth does. Man...is mismanaging it to a tremndous degree and needs some "baby-sitting" to be blunt. Unfortunately, this is a Universal issue and needs to be proven beyond all doubt...before the real changes come. Another subject...though.

In conclusion, I do want to mention, I do not feel like I am all that smart. I am not a member of MENSA (hope I spelled it right, lol), but nor would I want to be. I am of the opinion, that knowledge and having it is a good thing, but the ability to use knowledge, I mean...beneficially, is much better. Wisdom. So there is my focus. However, I don't claim a bonanza on that either, but I try. I really do. I think that is all...any of us can do; is try. Whether we actually do or not, well that too...is another question.

Sorry Firey, got lost in a speech. <smile> But...somewhere in the above...is a little more evidence, that I personally found
appealing.

Nice to have met you.

Touche',
El Stevereno