John: Yes it is another thread, I'll put one together and will welcome all feedback.

"But you seem to be talking the same as I am, for I can see that it is your decisions that are based on not hearing another’s proofs that would pull the wool over your own eyes. It is your own faith that another cannot convince you, and this dominates your thinking"

*sigh* It's not a faith. Nor is my belief that there are things out there unexplainable by science at this point. It's a possibility to consider, that's all, but even if we find things like that there is a long way between belief and mindless worship and a massive, massive leap of biased, unbased and unfounded faith to say it means there is an ultimate creator anywhere or only a single purpose to it all.

"Phill denies that he believes in no such a thing"

Does that mean I believe in some such thing?

"but seems to cling to something called “Nothingness” at all-isms. Too many demonic, witches, and such sitting on his foot rails I suppose …?…"

Rofl. I had to show that one to everyone I knew, they all had a good laugh at this accusation, even my religious friends asked what you had been smoking and where they could get some.

"I simply haven’t been asked for my personal inputs"

Yes you have.

"I have been dismissed, as some lower intellectual type"

You mean the way you have dismissed us all as lesser beings who don't follow you because you enjoy being deliberately confusing, inconsistent and egotistic towards your own apparent height of mental awareness and transcendence compared to all the other lowly folk here, as if you were the only person here who has ever had a weird experience or a strange dream? Yes, well, see Fiery Red's post for what I think of that. For someone who isn't a creationist, you sure sound like one at times. And don't give me that crap about unchangeable conventions for explaining yourself and how you are so restricted here. You could be clearer and you know it, so either you enjoy playing games or you don't possess the ability to express yourself in ways others can follow. Either way it's your own shortcoming, not the board's, so quit making excuses. It's boring now.

I have tried again and again to explain my standpoint on these issues, and still you insist on the old bullshit creationist type argument of 'you're convinced that there is no god so you also have faith'. Garbage. I remain unconvinced because nobody has convinced me yet, not because you totally misunderstand anything you can't force into your own version of reality. Whatever that is. I don't have to force any belief into my own system, or misunderstand it or botch it to fit.

"the same faith that dominates us, also, would dominate the personal truisms of those that preach faith religions rigorously"

Absolute hogwash. Trying to say that the faith that a scientific process works is the same as religious faith is wholly inappropriate. They are incomparable on anything other than a kindergarten understanding of faith. It doesn't even apply.

"while those that are passive (moderate friends, and other folks you have known) are not seriously involved with their faiths that they don’t, or wont discuss with you."

Sounds to me like this means unless you are a screaming evangelist about your beliefs then you don't believe them strongly enough. Again, I claim this is rubbish. It is perfectly possible for someone to be very strong in their beliefs personally, but moderate when discussing them with others. Note that last bit, they do discuss it. In fact many religious people here in my country have had to learn a more moderate approach to get people to listen to them - the public are sick to death of being preached at by hellfire morons who won't listen to anyone but themselves, yet still think they have the right to annoy other people with their bullshit. As to whether these people have a psychological disorder, that depends how far they carry their beliefs into denial of anything else.

"I think that they, for the most part, are trying to convince their own selves that they are right about their agnosticism"

You'll always find people who insist their beliefs are correct despite any conflicting evidence or viewpoint. This in fact was the crux of the article that started the thread. However, to accuse any more than a select, extreme few non believers of it is ridiculous. It is certainly entirely wrong to accuse anyone here since they have come to their conclusions through long, hard, thought, consideration and study, not through any childish stubbornness towards believing anything else, or some ludicrous concept of 'faith in no faith'.